[\m music playing \m\m]

>> Dr. Wafeek Wahby:

Well, I was talking with Dean Lanham a while ago, talking about our two faces appearing in each session introducing speakers or introducing the symposium, and we were debating--is it a good or bad sign for people to see us more, but I told him that you have such a gift from God, that smiling face and good spirit.

And audiences are different, so those who come every session, excuse our faces if you like, but those who come to a session, please feel welcome and we want just to give you a personal welcome.

I said this before and I'd like to say it again and I hope to continue to say that if you hold this in your hands, this is not just ink and images and paper, but it is the thoughts, mind, hearts of people who wanted to share their experiences with you, so please take it, keep it--it is very nice to keep.

It has very wonderful pictures and the library did a wonderful job putting it together, so thanks to the crew and the team that worked with Dr. Lanham on that.

It has been said that if you want to keep friends, don't talk about religions, don't talk about politics.

Now, our breaking that rule--that's good communication, I think--tell us something about communication today.

We'll talk about religion in ancient Egypt and obviously the title--a Biblical perspective.

We're encouraged to get Biblical lenses to look into ancient religions and I would encourage--even if you have a Hindu or any other religion--to get their lenses and look at ancient Egyptian, and then take the lenses and look at each other.

This will make rich information to us, to see how this religion would look into that religion and so forth.

How many religions are there in the world?

Okay, it's about 6 billion and a half or something.

Because it has been said that every person on the globe has his own religion.

Without much ado, [unclear dialogue] distinguished speakers, so we start with Dr. Robinson.

[applause]

>> Dr. Andrew Robinson:

Thank you, Dr. Wahby.

I appreciate very much Dr. Wafeek Wahby for coordinating this event.

Hasn't he done an outstanding job at putting this together?

I appreciate Dean Lanham for hosting, here in the library.

>> Dr. Wahby:

\I Actually he was [unclear dialogue], so we did it together.

>> Dr. Robinson:

Okay, the co-coordination then, but I know there's been a lot of hard work that's gone into this--preparation and planning and consumption of time.

There are very busy guys, in spite of doing this event and so thank you very much for inviting me to speak today and I'm glad to have my colleague with me as well--Ryan McDaniel.

He and I actually share an office together too, so it worked out very well, and he is a very astute individual in biblical knowledge as well, having a theology degree and things, but I had been an ordained minister since 1986 and it's been quite a few years and I do have a keen interest in the Bible and in all aspects of it, so it's an honor to speak to you today and share with you.

I'm surprised at the attendance.

I didn't know what we would get at 11 o'clock today, but I am impressed at the interest and so glad that you chose to come and be a part of this presentation.

And I'm going to talk to you about "A Biblical Perspective of Ancient Egyptian Religions," and what I want to do is provide more of an overview of the events of that time and then Ryan will come and share some specifics and carry on from there and some of the things that followed after that as well.

And so let's begin.

First of all, it all began with Joseph and Israel's involvement with the ancient Egyptians.

Joseph who was the eleventh son of Israel, whose formal name was Jacob and his name was changed--I don't know how many of you are familiar with the Bible story--his name was changed after he had a wrestling match with an angel and he was changed to Israel, which means "prince of God" and before that he was considered Jacob, a supplanter or deceiver.

And so he'd had a transformation there because of his name.

In the Bible, a person's name had major significance on their character and the type of person they are.

Then he was sold into Egypt, by his brothers and that's how Israel was introduced to Egypt.

His brothers became jealous of him and sold him into Egypt, and while he was there he gained favor among the Egyptians, and especially the pharaoh.

And he progressed--he went from being in Potiphar's home, living with him as someone who controlled his home, and then he was falsely accused of a crime that he did not commit and he was thrown into prison.

And while he was in prison he had, the king had a dream and Joseph was able to interpret the dream when no one else could.

And then pharaoh knew that Joseph had interpreted his dream and so he promoted him, he said there's no one wiser than Joseph through all the land of Egypt and so he appointed him second in command only to pharaoh himself, who was considered by the people in Egypt as not just a man, but as a god.

The pharaohs were worshipped.

And so while Joseph was in that position, he became prominent in Egypt and the people outside of Egypt were facing starvation, including his family and God used--to make a long story short--the Bible records that God used Joseph to spare his father and his brothers and their families from starvation. when they came to Egypt to seek for grain and eventually, to shorten the story, they were, as they met with Joseph they moved everything to a land of Goshen inside Egypt, and that was the dwelling place for the Israelites.

And it was a plenteous land where they could raise their cattle and sheep and [unclear dialogue].

They went in--and notice that they went into Egypt as a family, but when they, this whole account is given in the book of Exodus, which means the way out.

And so while they were there, they ended up being there for 430 years.

They went into Egypt as a family but when they left Egypt, they left as a nation because, imagine the generations for 430 years being in an area, and the population had grown from just a small clan, family to over, most scholars say around 2 1/2 million people that were now a part of Egypt.

But something happened after Joseph had died.

There was different pharaohs and there was a pharaoh that the Bible says did not remember Joseph and did not honor Joseph, and so as a result the Egyptians make the Israelites slaves.

And they became very cruel to the Israelites.

They forced them to make bricks and build for them and it was task-driven labor that they had to do, and so it became an oppression for the children of Israel.

They were satisfied there as long as they were in the land of Goshen and Joseph was present--they were protected, but then they became slaves, became an oppressed people and the Bible records that they began to cry out to God and as a result of that, God sent them a deliverer who was--oh, let's see.

I didn't know I had this animation set to that too.

It's almost as if they clicked an additional animation--Moses.

And so Moses was the deliverer that God raised up to help free the Israelites from Egyptian bondage.

And how Moses came to the position that he could do this, his mother had put him in, built a small ark, like a little boat, basket, put it where it would float on the water and she let him drift down the Nile River and close to where she, she was the hand maid for pharaoh's daughter.

And so pharaoh's daughter, she made sure the child would be there where pharaoh's daughter would discover him, and pharaoh's actually took Moses and made him how own son, adopted him as his own son.

And so then from that point, Moses was taught in the Egyptian educational system which was considered the renowned educational system.

They considered themselves superior to all races of people, the Egyptians did.

They considered themselves superior to any other intellectuals of their day and they were--as we heard the other night from the excellent presenter on Thursday--the skills they had, they had much greater technological skills than anyone else during that time.

And many of their technologies we still use today.

So he's raised in the educational system and God, after Moses is a grown man, 40 years in Egypt, he goes to the burning bush.

He sees a bush out in the desert and God speaks to him through the bush and that's where God's name was revealed to the Israelites, or what they referred to him as at the time.

Pharaoh and the children of Egypt, the people of Egypt, worshipped many gods.

They had--I don't know the exact number of gods, maybe someone here does, maybe Ryan knows that, I don't know exactly how many but there was, you know, polytheistic type of religion that they practiced, but Israel believed in one god, and so at that burning bush, God speaks to Moses and he tells him "I want you to go down to Egypt, set my people free".

Then he said, Moses asked him the question "Who shall I say it is that has sent me?" and God says to him "Tell him that I am that I am has sent thee" and that's where the word Yahweh or Jehovah, or the name Yahweh or Jehovah comes from--for the Israelite "God", which means eternally existent, without beginning, without end, I am.

[unclear dialogue] Yahweh, Jehovah, reveal both to the Israelites and to the Egyptians, and this was the purpose for God sending Moses there.

It was not only to--you know, the scripture in the Exodus speaks of not only to cause the Israelites to realize that Jehovah was the one true god, but also that the Egyptians and pharaoh would be aware of this as well.

Here we go again.

And so while they're there, Moses comes to pharaoh and makes his request.

"Let God's people go".

And so as a result, pharaoh wasn't going to let go of 2 1/2 million slaves very easily, and so--I mean they were a great component to the success of their economy and so  2 1/2 million slaves from the work force is going to be quite a gap in effort and production for them.

So, the Nile River, the first plague he sent against Egypt was the Nile River was turned to blood.

There was 10 plagues all together before pharaoh eventually let the children of Israel go.

So the Nile RIver turned to blood, then there was the frogs--there was frogs that came forth from the Nile River, they were everywhere in the houses and all over the land.

And then the plague of lice that was made from dust and afflicted to people.

And then there was a plague of flies following the lice, then following that, livestock disease where all the cattle and oxen were smitten with a plague of some type--and some scholars believe that that was some type of anthrax that may have caused that.

Festering boils was the next plague, and then hail and lightning came and killed anything that was on the outside, like cattle or people that were on the outside, it became so severe.

And then locusts were sent following that, that destroyed whatever vegetation the hail and lightning had not already destroyed.

And it kept getting more severe and much more catastrophic for Egypt with each additional plague.

Then the darkness that covered the Earth.

And you'll see in a moment that--one of the gods of Egypt--each of these plagues was related to some type of god that the Egyptians worshipped.

And then finally, the last plague was the death of the firstborn, not only of every human family, but also of every beast--livestock.

Here are the items that were under control as a result of these plagues.

As a result of the Nile River, under control, as the Bible said, of God was the water--it was turned to blood--and the effect of it was contamination and disease and then came pharaoh's response.

As you see on the end, his heart was hardened, is what the scripture said in Exodus.

Then frogs.

Frogs covered personal property--property ruined, disease, threat, again his heart was hardened.

The lice, it took away their personal comfort--and thank God I've never had lice, but it's, I hear that it's something that is very uncomfortable to have to deal with.

Personal discomfort of body, disease and threat again--his heart was hardened and the scripture also said that he would not listen.

Flies was the next plague.

The land and possessions were effected as a result of it.

Pollution, disease, threat and then heart hardened once again.

Livestock--similar response from pharaoh--animal life was effected, the livestock disease.

And then here are the final five--the plague, what happened and then again, as you see, [unclear dialogue] says the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart in this situation, and others said his heart was hardened.

The instruction that God had given to Moses was that he told Moses in advance that Egypt, that Pharaoh was not going to allow the people to go free with the first few plagues, but he said it will only be with a mighty destruction that will be the result that finally he will let them go free, and so Moses went in with the knowledge that it's going to fail.

With the first, the second, the third, the fourth, all the way through the ninth plague, he knew the response already in advance that he was going to get, and that Pharaoh's heart would be hardened.

And then, finally, the Israelites were freed as result of the tenth plague when the firstborn of Pharaoh and the other Egyptians had died.

Again, another chart for you.

Here's a god that was mocked as a result of each of the plagues.

Now the Nile turned to blood--there was the god of the Nile, Egypt worshipped the Nile.

And the Nile god's--do you pronounce that Neilos?

Neilos and Hapi.

And then the frogs, it was a frog-headed god that they had worshipped and then there's also another god which was a goddess of reproduction.

So the frogs reproduced so much that they, you know, viewed them as a symbol that by praying to these frog-headed gods it would allow them to, their cattle to reproduce, their women to reproduce.

Then lice from the god of the earth.

It smote the god of the earth because the lice came from the dust of the earth, and they prayed to this god so that their production would be blessed as well and the land would be productive, it would not suffer catastrophe.

And then the flies, the god for their flies was Beelzebub.

They prayed to him so that flies would not come, infest them and bring disease to them, and they'd be protected from it.

Livestock disease was, they had sacred cows--the sacred cow of god at Memphis that they  worshipped and prayed to.

Festering boils was Typhon, the evil-eyed god which they worshipped him so that they could avoid any plagues coming upon them.

The hail and lightning, Iris was considered a water god and Siris, the fire and lightning god and then Shu, the god of the atmosphere, so with each of these plagues you can see that there's a god of Egypt that was related to that, where Jehovah was supposed to be demonstrating his superiority to all of these Gods that they worshipped.

The god of life being--do you pronounce this Ptah?

Ptah, and so death of the firstborn.

Then following the plagues, when finally, well the night that the firstborn was to die, God had given instruction.

This was the most magnificent day in Israel's history, was the Passover.

While they were in Egypt they were to kill a spotless lamb--and most historians say it wasn't a lamb, it actually was a ram that was slaughtered--and they were to take, they were to splatter blood over the door post and over the two sides of the doorway, and there would be a death angel that would pass by and anyone that had that blood splattered over the door post would be protected and the death angel would not kill the firstborn of that household.

So this had significance not only for the Jewish people at that time, but also--whoops, what happened?

Did I hit something?

[unclear dialogue].

Oh, okay.

But anyway, what it did, it had significance--while he's working on that--that it was a typology for the Christian religion as well because they look at the Old Testament as a type and shadow of the New Testament and so the typology related here, that Jesus Christ was the spotless lamb that was slain for them on the cross of cavalry when he was crucified with nails in his hands and a crown of thorns on his brow, just like the door post having blood sprinkled over the top of it and then over the two sides was blood as well, which symbolized the nails that were in his hands, or in his wrists, that held him to the cross.

So they continue to look at that.

ANd then too with this, with the Passover, another related thing was that there were no  bones of the animal to be broken, and as a result of that, I mean the typology with that when Jesus Christ was on the cross, typically what they would do, would break the bones of those that were suffering a capital punishment, the Roman guards would.

They would break the bones of anyone that was being crucified, and then when it came to Jesus Christ on the cross, then there were no bones broken for him and so it was related back, once again, to the Passover.

Now from there--and I'm about ready to turn it over to Ryan--is, from that point, then when finally the firstborn of the Egyptian families died, then the children of Israel left in haste.

They quickly left the area and they started traveling toward the Red Sea.

And when they got to the Red Sea, they waited there because they couldn't cross it of course, but then the Bible states that God caused a wind to begin to blow and caused the waters to divide.

And Pharaoh and the Egyptians changed their mind and they go chasing after the Israelites and they begin to realize that we're going to lose all of this labor--we need them to help us out--and so they go chasing after the Israelites, but the waters are divided.

Israel goes over on dry land, crossing the Red Sea, into the wilderness on the other side and while Pharaoh and his army are following after the Israelites--in the Red Sea, with the waters divided, then, Exodus describes that the water began to fall in on the Egyptians.

The wheels of their chariots begin to break off and they are all killed by the closing of the waters then, and that demonstrates, that was kind of foretelling, a completion or culmination of what God had told Moses at the beginning, that he would demonstrate a great victory over Pharaoh and over the gods that they worshipped.

And so that's, there was one scripture I was going to share with you that kind of conceptualizes all of this.

I don't think, I had it on e a Powerpoint--oh I've got it right here.

It's in Psalm 105 and verse 6 through 40--I'll find it here for you.

It reads, it conceptualizes the entire event.

"Moreover he called for a famine upon the land: he broke the whole staff of bread.

He sent man before them, even Joseph, who was sold for a servant whose feet they hurt with fetters, he was laid in iron.

Until the time that his word came: the word of the Lord tried him.

The king sent and loosed him; even the ruler of the people, and let him go.

He made him lord of all his house and ruler of all his substance, to bind his princes at his pleasure and teach his senators wisdom.

Israel also came into Egypt and Jacob sojourned in the land of Ham, and he increased to his people greatly and made them stronger than their enemies.

He turned their heart to hate his people, to deal subtly with his servants.

He sent Moses his servant and Aaron who he had chosen.

They showed his signs among them and wonders in the land of Ham.

He sent darkness and made it dark, and they rebelled not against his word.

He turned their waters into blood, and slew their fish.

Their land brought forth frogs in abundance, in the chambers of their kings.

He spake and there came divers sorts of flies and lice in all their coasts.

He gave them hail for rain and flaming fire in their land.

He smote their vines also and their fig trees, and broke the trees of their coasts.

He spake and the locusts came, and caterpillars and that without number, and did eat up all the herbs in their land and devoured the fruit of their ground.

He smote also all the firstborn in their land, the chief of all their strength.

He brought them forth also with silver and gold and there was not one feeble person among their tribes.

Egypt was glad when they departed for the fear of them fell on them.

He spread a cloud for a covering and fire to give light in the night."

And at this time, I'll turn it over to my colleague Ryan.

>> Mr. Ryan McDaniel:

"An angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said "Rise, take the child and his mother and flee to Egypt and remain there until I tell you for Egypt," I'm sorry, "for Herod is about to search for the child to destroy him".

And he rose and took the child and his mother by night, and departed to Egypt and remained there until the death of Herod.

This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken to the prophet.

Out of Egypt, I call my son".

So I'm entitling my presentation today "Out of Egypt I Called My Son: Cradle of the Christian Tradition".

So my colleague Dr. Robinson was focusing on the biblical narrative of Israel and Egypt, the plagues, the Exodus and so on and so forth.

I'm moving beyond the biblical narrative and I'm talking about the emergence of the Christian tradition from one of its cradles, Egypt.

We may or may not realize that Christianity in fact--contrary to some popular notions--is not a Western European religion.

I'm always disappointed when I hear Christianity referred to as a Western European religion.

Sometimes when religions, world religions, are covered even in the classroom, some instructors will want to say 'well there's really no need to cover Christianity because everyone knows about Christianity.

'We're Americans, this is a Christian culture, everybody knows about them.'

I'm hoping to challenge you and inspire you and enlighten you that actually the Christian tradition--though it might seem so close and familiar--can be made alien and strange and something that we know nothing about.

"Out of Egypt I called my son".

The passage from Matthew that I read to you is a passage from the Gospel of Matthew.

It references when Joseph and Mary took the child Jesus and fled to Egypt in order to find safety in Egypt.

I'm using this reference from in fact the prophet Hosea in chapter 11, verse 1, as a kind of poetic way at getting at the emergence of later Christian tradition from one of its earliest cradles, Egypt, Christianity being in fact a near Eastern religion.

So I'm starting at some of the early religious history in Egypt but I'm only pausing briefly before I move on.

I'm referencing one particular text known popularly as "The Book of the Dead" or "The Egyptian Book of the Dead".

This was commonly used--scholars believed from approximately 1550 BC to 50 BC it was in common use.

The text reflects a notion in Egypt of the afterlife.

This is not Israelite religion, this is Egyptian religion.

They did have a belief in the afterlife, that the soul departs from the body, that the soul encounters various challenges and the greatest, sort of defining moment of the soul as it has departed from the body and goes into the afterlife that will decide the eternal fate of the soul, is a weighing on the scales of justice.

The heart of the person is placed on scales, and so I've given you two ancient Egyptian images of the heart on one side and the feather on the other side.

If the heart outweighed the feather, the soul was condemned to a terrifying fate, but if the heart was lighter than the feather--not being burdened down by evil, nefarious ways, then the soul could pass in safety to a promising afterlife.

This was sort of at the heart of this notion of Egyptian afterlife.

Enter Alexander the Great.

Coming out from Macedonia, he goes out on a worldwide sort of conquering endeavor.

He ends up coming to Egypt, coming to the temple of the god Amun.

He hears from one of the priests there 'you are the son of Amun'.

He identifies the Egyptian Amun with the god that he knows as Zeus, and he is told there at this temple 'you are the son of Amun', the son of Zeus.

Alexander is the son of God, and he has this divine sense of mission, that he's out on a mission from God, and he found a city in Egypt that he cleverly names after himself, Alexandria.

Alexandria, founded in approximately 332 BC, becomes one of the greatest intellectual centers in the ancient world, unrivaled by any other ancient city.

At Alexandria is founded a great library.

This library had the patronage of the Ptolemies.

This library intentionally seeks out texts from many cultures, many different traditions and intellectual richness and diversity is collected and housed at Alexandria.

Being one of the first recorded libraries that represents this ideal that we now see that is the ideal of this library and every other library--to go out and collect these texts that represent this diversity of different cultures, different beliefs.

Whatever wisdom, whatever knowledge, whatever sort of culture and society is out there, it's gathered to this intellectual center in Alexandria.

Egypt becomes an intellectual heart of the ancient world.

And so, in the process of gathering all of this diversity and the wisdom of these different cultures, what do they wish to acquire but none other than the wisdom of the Hebrews.

There is a tradition represented in the ancient text known as the "Letter of Aristeas" that purports to recount events from the third century BC.

According to the tradition, Ptolemy asks for a translation into Greek of the Hebrew scriptures.

And so the call goes out for Jewish scholars to come and translate their Hebrew scriptures into Greek.

Enter the first time the Bible is translated.

The first of tradition of my son being called out of Egypt that I want to point out to you is biblical translation finds its start in Egypt.

The Hebrew scriptures are translated into Greek.

According to the tradition 70, or in some accounts, 72 Jewish scholars come and they are miraculously inspired by their God to translate their Hebrew scriptures into Greek.

One very famous example of this that I want to draw to your attention is in the prophet Isaiah.

The Hebrew is ambiguous, and they put together prophecy that says 'the young woman shall conceive and bear a son.

As the Jewish translator is about to translate this into Greek, he receives a revelation and God says do not simply translate this as 'young woman' but translate this as 'virgin', woman who has never known a man, will bear a son.

And so this tradition becomes incorporated into the Christian tradition.

Out of Egypt I called my son.

This is an ancient depiction of the account where the 70 or 72 Jewish scholars come to Ptolemy, receiving his patronage to translate their scriptures into Greek.

In Egypt, there is a famous Jewish scholar.

One Jew, in Egypt, that came to be a place of--you may or may not realize this--the largest concentration of Jewish people outside of the land of Israel itself, in Egypt.

Ironically, the very place from which they came in the Exodus becomes the largest homeland for the Jewish people outside of Israel itself.

One of the scholars of note from ancient Egypt, known as Philo of Alexandria, living from 20 BC to 50 AD--sometimes it's thought maybe 40 AD--but living approximately at that time.

Philo knew the scriptures in the Greek translation, the Greek translation being known as the Septuagint, Septuagint coming from the Greek word for 70 by the way.

Seventy, the translation of the 70.

And so, Philo reading the scriptures in Greek, takes up an Alexandrian tradition.

There is an Alexandrian tradition of interpreting the writings of Homer, "The Illiad" and "The Odyssey," especially ""The Odyssey".

Using an interpretive technique known as the allegorical interpretation of scripture.

The first tradition coming out of Egypt that I wanted to call your attention to was the tradition of Bible translation.

The second tradition coming out of Egypt that I want to draw your attention to is interpretation of scripture using the allegorical approach.

Philo of Alexandria is a Jew par excellence in using the allegorical interpretation of scripture.

He takes the familiar stories of Noah and the flood, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the 12 patriarchs, the Exodus, and he offers these narratives a new, sort of rich, spiritual, allegorical interpretation that is later taken up by the Christians and used prolifically by Christians.

This method of not only Bible translation but Bible interpretation becomes part of the quintessence of Christian tradition.

Out of Egypt I have called my son.

One of the profound Christians in Egypt to take up the allegorical interpretation of scripture was named Origin.

He's known as Origin of Alexandria.

Living from approximately 185 to 254 AD, Origin becomes one of the first sustained intellectual, brilliant--have to underscore that--brilliant interpreters of scripture in the allegorical method. 

His ideas and interpretations of the scriptures become seminal, pregnant with so many of the ideas that would later come to define the Christian tradition in its more mystical and spiritual aspects.

In Egypt, at this same time, there rose up an ascetical tradition.

The Greek word askesis does not mean--and do not allow anyone to fool you--it does not mean self-denial.

Sometimes you'll hear people define asceticism as denying oneself--what a dreadful thought.

From the Greek word askesis, it means exercise.

It comes from the way training for the Olympian games was described.

You are training for the Olympics, you practice askesis.

You train yourself for excellence.

The ascetical tradition was training for excellence in the spiritual life.

Saint Anthony the Great is the most famous of those practicing askesis in Egypt.

Training for excellence in the spiritual life.

Associated with the broader tradition of what was known as the desert fathers--the monks, those who formed monasteries.

Those that turned away from the blessings and the good things in marriage and raising children in order to have a single-minded focus and devotion, turned their gaze upon God.

This was their focus.

The exteriors of self-denial are simply accidents.

The essence, what they were up to, was not so much shunning the world, but seeking to focus their attention upon God.

Origin wrote a commentary on the biblical book known as the "Song of Songs".

This is a romance poem from the Hebrew scriptures, and Origin interprets the "Song of Songs" as a romance poem, as the romance between a human person and God.

And this sort of romance, this desire for God as the one and only becomes this defining tradition in Egypt.

The tradition of Anthony the Great and the desert fathers becomes sort of exemplified in the desert father known as Athanasius--again, notice where he's from--of Alexandria.

Living from approximately 296 to 376, Athanasius is best known for clarifying the teaching 'Christ is fully god and fully human'.

What does this mean?

This is the third tradition that I want to draw your attention to.

Out of Egypt I have called my son.

Identification and transformation.

God identified with humanity, that humanity could be called to identify with God.

This is identification and transformation.

God assumes humanity that humanity could be embraced by and assumed--assumed by and assumed within God.

The incarnation as explained by Athanasius is a mission of identification and transformation.

Another of the Egyptian fathers representing the tradition is Evagrius of Pontus.

Evagrius identified a list of struggles that were common to all humanity.

This list is later adopted and modified slightly by Pope Gregory in approximately 590 AD, and comes down to us as the 7 deadly sins.

Many have heard of the seven deadly sins, but may not know where does this come from.

Out of Egypt I have called my son.

They become transformed in the west, they are understood in a different way in the west.

In the east, in Egypt, these are understood as areas that are in need of healing--and I need to underscore that word, healing.

These are not sources of guilt demanding punishment, these are areas of melody, of needfulness.

This is a list of those aspects of the human experience where the Christian calls out to God as physician.

Heal me, bring me healing.

That's what this spiritual tradition is about.

It's not about guilt, it's about healing.

Identification and transformation.

God identifies with humanity that humanity can be healed to fully identify with God.

This tradition is received by Ambrose.

Ambrose receives the tradition of Egypt.

He receives the tradition of biblical translation.

He receives the tradition of the allegorical interpretation of scripture.

He receives the tradition of Athanasius, of identification and transformation and he receives the tradition of the desert fathers of spiritual healing.

Ambrose is to become the teacher of none other than Augustin.

Augustin's writings will come to dominate Christian reflection in Western Europe.

Out of Egypt I have called my son.

The Egyptian tradition is passed through these fathers, finding its way to Ambrose and Augustin and from there, to Western Europe.

From the cradle of the Christian tradition, it flourishes in Europe.

No, Christianity is not a European religion.

It is a Near Eastern religion, but out of Egypt I have called my son, and this tradition was received in Europe.

So i just want to some up my presentation.

Reflection on the Christian tradition of Egypt.

It reflects the tradition of Bible translation, the Septuagint, the translation of the 70 from the Hebrew to the Greek, the Greek translation becoming the Bible of the authors of the New Testament itself.

The Greek translation being the translation that Christians used, not the Hebrew.

The tradition of allegorical interpretation of scripture, the spiritual interpretation of scripture that finds deeper meanings in the narratives.

The tradition of identification and transformation with Athanasius, that God becomes human and identifying with humanity that humanity can identify with God, and that within this tradition is the healing of the soul.

That the human condition is not about guilt and God ready to smite and wrath, but the human condition is one of melody in need of a healer, and calling out to God with a focus, with a longing to be healed, to be restored to God's intention, God's design.

And it's with that I would conclude with, again, the theme of my presentation--out of Egypt I have called my son.

Thank you.

[applause].

>> Dr. Wahby:

Any questions?

I know time is racing toward us and I know everybody has other appointments as well so we'll leave here at 12 noon.

Any questions?

I had two questions for Dr. Robinson, and I had a question for both of them actually, so if you can jump in before me, or I'll go first.

So I'll go first.

For both of you, you mentioned that there were gods--at least 10 of them, numerous, but 10 of them--that Jehovah smite to show his glory to the ancient Egyptians.

And you say that the ancient Egyptians, [unclear dialogue], took some progressively out of Egypt to get us to Christianity.

Now, the question for both of you is is there any contamination, quote end-quote, from the pagan religions of Egypt?

There were 10 at least represented that Yahweh faced or smitten that transpired into either the Jewish to the Christian faith.

>> Mr. McDaniel:

If I understand your question, the question is is there some sort of pre-Christian or non-Jewish , non-Christian religion influence that corrupts later Jewish or later Christian tradition.

>> Dr. Wahby:

Yes.

>> Mr. McDaniel:

I won't presume to speak for Dr. Robinson, but I can tell you that, keeping with the theme of my presentation, the understanding of the Christian tradition as it was perceived and developed  was that the truth is the truth, regardless of its source, regardless of where it comes from.

And so, if that which is true and good and beautiful in a non-Christian or non-Jewish sources can be recognized and affirmed then not only can it be, but it aught to be.

And so  the tradition, the Christian tradition is never, has never been one of exclusiveness and denial of that which is true and good, but always recognition and affirmation that God is the god of all, and anywhere that truth and beauty and goodness can be seen and recognized and affirmed, not only can it be, it should be.

And so the Christian tradition, if there are apparent comparisons or likenesses that are carried over, the Christian tradition historically would not say that those are corruptions but rather a recognition and affirmation that the God of all has sewn seeds of truth, and goodness and beauty throughout the whole Earth, and those should be affirmed wherever they are to be found.

>> Dr. Wahby:

Something like the light before the sunset, the dawn, that God was talking to these people about the one god [unclear dialogue].

>> Mr. McDaniel:

The Christians would simply affirm that it makes more sense that God and echoes, or resonances of God's truth, would be expected to be seen.

They would find it as more reasonable that you would expect to see resonances of God's truth throughout the world than undifferentiated darkness.

You would not expect to see undifferentiated darkness, you would expect to see seeds of truth and resonance of that which is true and beautiful and to recognize those where they can be recognized.

>> Dr. Robinson:

I'll add that probably if we were to think of when Moses first came to Pharaoh, when he made a suggestion that there was one god, the situation that Pharaoh was looking at was here you are the people that are enslaved.

The Israelites are the people enslaved, and you've been in this country for 430 years, so it doesn't look like your god has done very much for you at this point, and furthermore, look at how blessed Egypt was at the time by worshipping many gods, so they felt that this universality of gods in everything practically, was an enlightenment for themselves.

But then with the Hebrew god, they had the revelation from the burning bush that is "I am", then that "I am" was almost like God left it blank for them to fill in, that he wanted them to understand that everything they needed came from one god, from him alone.

And so that's why they referred to him, they gave him several names that characterized different elements of how God would manifest himself.

One was Jehovah Jireh, which means "I am provider".

Jehovah Rophe, "I am healer".

Jehovah Tsidkenu, "I am righteousness".

Jehovah M'Kaddesh, "I am sanctifier".

Jehovah Nissi, "I am shepherd".

So there's like eight different names they gave him to characterize who he is, and to kind of get back to your original question is that with the Christian religion is realizing, they see that individuals or humanity is corrupt in many ways, and as result of that through the scriptures and through God himself that is guiding individuals toward perfection and toward being without flaws.

I think that kind of added to what you were asking there, but there's not perfect because there's a scripture that says that all have sinned [unclear dialogue] glory of God, and let God be true and every man a liar, and probably some of those things that you were talking about bringing into the Christian religion from Egypt, then I would see that as human nature.

There are some things that we are susceptible to constantly that, of our own ideologies and our own philosophies, sometimes we may adopt and make a part because--I like what I heard someone, a comment that I heard someone make many years ago.

They said if we don't live the life we believe then we end up believing the life we live.

>> Dr. Wahby:

So we shouldn't be too worried about the similarities, which means some in the Book of the Dead, some in the Bible--it's not that this copied from those.

>> Mr. McDaniel:

Well there are two strands of tradition.

There's the tradition that I think Dr. Robinson was getting at, was that certainly the Christian tradition does not deny that it has seen the true light.

In the eastern liturgy it said "we have seen the true light".

Jesus says "I am the light of the world".

And so this is the light that illumines the shadows and the darkness.

Where there is error, it is made right.

Where there is falsehood, truth is shown forth.

So there is the tradition that what must be denied, must be denied, but there is the parallel tradition--what must be affirmed can and should be affirmed--and so I don't see that Dr. Robinson and I are at any variance with one another in our comments.

That Dr. Robinson is getting at look, there are things that the Christian tradition does deny--polytheism, for example--but there are things that the Christian tradition also affirms.

That there is a life everlasting, that there is a judgement, that there is restoration and a reward and a promise of good things.

The word gospel is "good news".

If good news is simply soured as bad news, that doesn't attract us.

Christian tradition has always recognized that we're not attracted by vinegar, but by honey.

>> Dr. Wahby:

Thank you, any questions or comments?

>> male speaker:

How long after the Exodus and the departure of 2 1/2 million Israelites did polytheism basically fall apart within Egypt?

Did it have to wait until the coming of Mohammed?

>> Mr. McDaniel:

Well, polytheism certainly survived vigorously and was practiced in Egypt through the centuries AD.

It was, I believe, in the fourth century AD, there was a quite rowdy uprising in Egypt that resulted in a unfortunate Christian mob sort of attacking and tearing down one of the last remaining major pagan shrines in Egypt, so it remained.

In the early Roman empire, Christianity and quote, unquote pagans or non-Christians--and I want to pause there and point out that there were quote, unquote pagan monotheists.

That is to say that there were those who were neither Jewish or Christian, but were monotheists--monotheism was there--and so it's not simply polytheism that we're talking about, but it survived.

Christians and non-Christians lived with one another, there were persecutions against Christians that punctuated this ability to live with one another, but Christians--as reflected in the New Testament tradition itself--thought of themselves as wishing to live harmoniously in the society in which they found themselves.

So these polytheistic religions--these non-Jewish, non-Christians religions--did continue, they did survive, but eventually, along with the Christianization of the entirety of the Roman empire, these gradually faded away and gradually everyone identified themselves as Christians.

There were punctuations to that with some violence, but these were punctuations, this was not the norm.

Gradually there was a more organic transformation and a fading of those other religions.

>> Dr. Robinson:

I had a comment that regarding the typology of the whole event of the children of Israel being in Egypt for the Christian perspective is, Israel being in Egypt is comparable to a person being in sin without God, that we are considered in bondage until we know God.

For the Christian, the Old Testament is a type and shadow of the new, which was to come, and so then the Red Sea--when they crossed the Red Sea--that represented water baptism.

That was a typology of water baptism because it, you know, the scripture said "for w are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life".

There's a scripture that Paul refers to--I don't know the chapter and verse right off--where they were baptized in the wilderness it refers to.

And then they made the journey through the wilderness but when they came to the river of Jordan, they crossed over to the land of Canaan, crossing over the river Jordan where the waters of [unclear dialogue] were rolled back so they could cross over.

That was representative of a new, of a Christian believer being filled with the spirit of God.

"Out of your belly shall flow rivers of living water".

So all of that is a typology of, the Christian's interpret that as, you know, a typology for representing things which were to come, so the enlightenment that Ryan was referring to.

All of those things that happened, those are some of the connections of the former things that happened with Egypt with the Christian religion.

>> Dr. Wahby:

Just a quick word of historical correction here.

The 50 years after Christ's ascension, the day of the Pentecost, the Holy Spirit coming, some Jews from Alexandria and Egypt were in Jerusalem and they became converted to Christianity.

They went back and started preaching and Egypt started to become Christian from that time.

Twenty years later the tradition says that Mark, evangelists that wrote the book of Mark, went and evangelized and became the first pope of Alexandria, Ethiopia and the whole land of Egypt, and by the  first century almost 99 percent of Egypt became Christian, worshipping the one God and Mohammed came 600 years and 50 later on, and it's another story.

But Egypt was Christian and persecuted--the largest Christian persecution happened under Diocletian [unclear dialogue].

It was in Egypt and they suffered for 400 years of severe persecution until the Roman Empire became Christian, and at that time they came out of the caves and did what Ryan mentioned.

Other questions?

If you have other questions that come to you after that, email them--you have their names and the website--or email me or Dean Lanham and we'll be happy to do this.

We're putting this online after the symposium finishes, so we'll add your questions and answers to reach everybody.

And guess what?

It is 10 minutes after ten o'clock, Los Angeles time.

So give them a round of applause.